the medical service of the army, Col. Davies moved a reduction of 5000l., and Mr W. Smith a postponement. The postponement was negatived by 109 to 59, and the reduction by 110 to 58. The vote of 170,000/. for volunteer corps gave rise to a pretty warm conversation on the origin of the discontents in Scotland.

On the 30th April, when the House was about to go into a committee, Mr Creevey said he wished to address to them a few words. They had been now sitting six weeks upon the army estimates, without a single reduction in any one item proposed having been agreed to; still, however, a sensation had been felt elsewhere, as he understood that circulars had been addressed to the inferior clerks in the public offices, to intimate a probable reduction of their salaries. Now, he was anxious, that, when the gentlemen opposite began to reform the public offices, they should begin at the right end. The lower clerks were the most useful class of persons in the public departments, and yet their salaries were to be curtailed, while the salaries of those at the head of the offices were not to be touched. He therefore moved a resolution, specifying a number of large salaries, and stating the resolution of the House to consider the expediency of reducing them, after receiving the report of the committee of supply.

Lord Palmerston said, he had never known a resolution so extraordinary in its nature, or so singular in its grounds. The honourable member had heard that some reductions were about to be made, and therefore he called upon the House to re-consider certain votes it had already come to. If the government had not come to any determination to reduce its expenses, then there might be ground for the amendment; but it was a most singular reason for it, that government had determined to

see what reductions might be made in particular departments. In a few days, the items to which the amendment alluded must come before the House, and he conceived it would be only stultifying itself to declare now, that it would consider what, in the course of business, must come under its consideration in so short a time.

After some observations from Mr Bennett and the Marquis of Londonderry, Mr Creevey's resolution was negatived by 55 to 22.

Mr Hume proposed, that the vote of 16,915. for the Military College should be reduced to 97711. He admitted that there had been a reduction since 1816, when it was 33,000l. The expense, however, in the last five years had been 115,280l. while only 160 cadets had obtained commissions; so that the education of each cadet cost the country 720l. 10s.

Lord Palmerston said, those students who had passed the examinations were regularly provided with commissions; at present there were only 14 without them. The whole number educated at the college since its institution had been 2528, of which 1817 had joined the service. The amendment was negatived by 32 to 23.

On the vote of 28,204/. for garrisons, Mr Hume inquired if there was no intention of reducing sinecure garrisons.-The Marquis of Londonderry replied, that government considered them as a suitable mode of rewarding the services of distinguished military officers.-Mr Hume, however, moved a reduction of 24447. on the garrisons of Berwick and Gibraltar. Negatived by 87 to 27.

On the motion of 115,2661. for full pay to retired and unattached officers, Mr Hume merely made some strictures on the increase of this list, consequent upon the temporary embodying of the militia. On the motion, however, of 121,265l. for disbanded

and wounded foreign officers, and allowances to their widows, he said, if the House had the smallest regard to economy, they would oppose this resolution. He complained of the ar rangements being such, that foreign officers were better provided as to halfpay than British. This was explained by Lord Palmerston; and Mr Hume moved, finally, a reduction of only 2000, which was negatived by 89 to 35.-The allowance of 42,7961. for Chelsea in-pensioners, was passed without a vote, Mr Hume only remarking, that it might be afterwards considered whether Chelsea ought to be continued. On the 1st May, the report of the committee of supply being brought up, Mr Bennett rose, and expressed his intention, and that of his honour able friends, of discontinuing the discussions upon the different items of the estimates. After the ordnance estimates should be gone through, either himself or some honourable friend of his would move a series of resolutions upon the whole amount of our army establishment. It was impossible not to see that the House was tired of the discussions which had taken place, from the scanty attendances, and particular ly that of last night. Therefore it was that they intended to make their objections upon the whole sums, and to hold them up to the public, so that the country might see what votes the House were willing to grant. With all their efforts they had not been able to prevail upon the House to reduce one shilling upon the whole of the estimates. He was confident, however, that the country would never again see such estimates brought down in a time of peace.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that the House had agreed to the present estimates without correction or diminution, because they were judged to be such as the existing circumstances of the country required.

By such circumstances the estimates were always regulated, and were never considered as fixed and permanent expenditure. As to the resolutions of which the honourable member gave notice, on a general scale, when they were brought forward would be the time to meet them.

On the question, that the resolution respecting the half-pay be agreed to,

Colonel Davies made a motion relative to the employment of officers from the half-pay list. There were at present on half pay 8816, costing annually 765,781. In the five years, 1816-1820, the new appointments were 1105, of which 54 only were made from this list.

Lord Palmerston replied, that of these 1105, there had been 508 filled up by purchase, 114 by cadets from Woolwich, 80 from the half pay, the remaining 314 without purchase. Only 62 commissions had been given away annually, of which 38 to cadets from Woolwich and officers on half pay. The motion was not finally pressed to a decision. On the following day, however, Colonel Davies proposed an address to the King on the subject, which was negatived by 46

to 14.

On the same day, Mr Hume moved a clause for the revision of superannuation allowances. The Marquis of Londonderry stated, that a measure for reducing the scale on which they were granted was under the consideration of government; and the motion was negatived-63 to 22.

On the motion for 35,000l. for fees to be paid at the Exchequer by the Paymaster-General, Mr Hume ridi, culed the idea of the public paying for the payment of its own money. After some explanation, however, no amendment was moved.

This long series of debate and conflict was now drawing to a close.

On the 25th May, the vote of a

million was proposed for the extraordinaries of the army. On this sum, a variety of animadversions were made. It was complained that, in many cases, the accounts were indistinct, and that particular specification was wanting. It was answered, that arrangements were making to render them more detailed and intelligible.-Mr Hume, however, moved a reduction of 36,612., which was finally merged in Mr Bennett's motion for a reduction of 100,000l. It was negatived by 84

to 32.

On the same day, 401,569. was asked for the Commissariat department. Mr Maberly and Mr Hume complained of the great expense of the storekeeper's office, and proposed that it should be merged into the ordnance department. In 1813, there had been 300 commissaries, and there were still 231.-Mr Arbuthnot said, 800 clerks had been dismissed from this department. Col. Davies, however, moved a reduction of 42381. Nega tived by 89 to 40.

On the motion for 137,500l. to the barrack department, Colonel Davies opposed it both in a financial and constitutional view. He particularly objected to the rise since last year, and to the charge of 74,000l. for new barracks It was for garrisons in disaffected districts, and augmented the ferment of distress, which it was meant to relieve. The people demanded relief, and ministers gave them a barrack; they asked for bread, and they received a stone.-Mr Arbuthnot declared, that no part of this expenditure had been undertaken, unless from a belief of its necessity. The new barracks were necessary for the preservation of tranquillity, and to protect the people against themselves.-Mr Hume's motion for a reduction of 78,000l. was negatived by 53 to 29.

Amid this general sifting and search. ing of all the details of public expen

diture, the ordnance was not neglected. On the 16th February, Mr Ward presented the annual estimates for that service. On this occasion, Mr Hume rose to move for the production of more accurate and detailed accounts. The estimates, as at present framed, gave none of the requisite information; they entered into no details, but left the House utterly ignorant of all the items which went to compose the separate heads of expenditure. It was certainly singular that the House should have hitherto been content to vote the sums demanded, on an inspection merely of their total amount. The consequence was, that the sums actually disbursed did not correspond with the finance accounts. In the year 1817, the sum charged was 1,435,000/., whilst it appeared in the finance accounts to be only 1,189,000l. He alluded now to the third report of the finance committee. In the year 1818, the amount of expenditure, as stated in the latter, was 1,200,000, and according to the estimates laid before that House, it was no less than 1,400,000l.; and in 1819 there was a difference between 1,100,000l. as represented by the finance accounts, and 1,538,000l., being an excess of 400,000l. actually disbursed. He wished only to refer for one moment to the ordnance expenditure during the three years previous to the war. The amount of it in the year 1791 was 506,000!., including a sum of 70,000l. for the discharge of debt contracted. In 1792 it was 419,000l.; and in 1793, just before the armament, it was, including the charge for artillery, 513,0002.The average was about 440.000/.; which average, after all the reductions and alterations made, amounted in 1819, the fourth year of peace, to 1,400,000/., and in the following year to 1,500,000. It now appeared, by the estimates for the service of the present year, that the same amount

was to be continued, or at least that the whole saving did not exceed 15,000l. He would now give some instances to shew the real disposition of his Majesty's ministers to carry their boasted schemes of retrenchment into effect. The estimates proved nothing, shewed nothing, and in order to procure some light, he must again have recourse to the reports of the finance committee. In the fifth year of peace, there had only been a deduction of 300,000l. in this branch of our expenditure. The Tower and Pallmall department had risen since 1782 from 38,000l. to 120,000l. There would be 30,000l. found charged as allowances for length of service. In the 13th report of the commissioners of military inquiry, they expressed their surprise at this circumstance, and observed that these additional gratuities were granted by his Majesty's warrant. They complained, therefore, not of the authority under which they were allowed, but of the discretion exercised by those who recommended these grants to the crown. The commissioners said that they believed it was a practice unknown in any other department, and that it had gone to the extent of trebling the former sala ries. The pay and allowances of the Master-General of Ordnance had been doubled. The salary of the clerk of ordnance had received a considerable addition. The secretary to the MasterGeneral, whose salary was 300l. per annum in the year 1796, and who ought to be regarded as a private rather than a public secretary, now received 2000l. In the year 1819, a committee of that House (the finance committee) thought it a great merit to advise the reduction of this sum to 1500l. per annum, just as if it was the case of a public secretary, instead of being a private appointment, or as if there was no public secretary; although the person who did actually

fill that office was at the same time receiving 1400l. per annum. The office of under secretary, to which there was a salary of 300l. attached, had indeed been abolished; but lest the public should derive any benefit from the abolition, the salary had been divided amongst the clerks. The salary of the storekeeper at Dover had, since 1796, been increased from 120l. to 4201., without any proportional increase of services. By cutting away useless offices in one quarter, and by curtailing the salaries of them in another, he was convinced that the ordnance estimates might be reduced from 1,500,000l. to 1,100,000l. There was now a halfpay list of 330,000l., and it appeared to him that, under such circumstances, if in 1796 the estimates were only 450,000l., the estimates in 1820 ought not to exceed three times that amount. And yet they did exceed that sum; nor was it wonderful when they recollected the gross and lavish expenditure in the storekeeper's department at Sheerness, into the particulars of which Mr Hume entered at considerable length. He next adverted to the gunpowder department of the ordnance, in which he maintained that as little frugality and attention to economy had been displayed. The expense of the establishment at Feversham amounted to 3000l., although no gunpowder had been made for some years, and the very mills had been let. The floating magazines he considered a subject of great abuse. Honourable gentlemen were, perhaps aware, that if a common labourer took a couple of brass nails, or a log of wood out of the ordnance stores, he was liable to be transported for life; but would they believe that if a storekeeper took a boat-load of them, not the slightest notice was taken of that fact? He would prove that it was a frequent practice with the storekeepers to appropriate part of the old stores to their own use

and especially in the case of Mr Pennell of Sheerness. He had old carriages cut up for his own use, and not only cut up for his own use, but cut up for him by the servants of the public. What he wanted was information, detail, specification. It had been recommended again and again to the ordnance department, that the artificers should appear in the estimates, divided and classed into corps and battalions, in the same way in which the different regiments appeared in the army estimates. Why should not that course be adopted? Why should not the House be allowed to see its way, instead of seeing a lumping charge of 250,000, without one word of why or wherefore? For 280,000l. the country had three words-" Repairs, current services, and contingencies." There was a laxity throughout the whole system. The honourable member concluded by moving, that the ordnance estimates for Great Britain for the next year should be submitted to the House in a state distinguishing by separate columns the salaries and allowances of officers, and the amount of expenses in each department, and distinguishing such officers as have been appointed to their situations since the year 1793.

Mr R. Ward had not the smallest objection to the motion of the honourable member for Montrose, nor did he wish to withhold any information from the House. If the matter had been discussed, as it might more conveniently have been, in committee, he would have proposed to leave the estimates upon the table, and to supply, upon a separate paper, the detail required. If the House would accept the detail in that shape, and it might be printed at the same time with the estimates, he would furnish it; and the delay attached to the production of new estimates might in that way be avoided. After the long statement, however, partly correct, and partly

most incorrect, which the honourable member had presented to the House, a few observations were absolutely necessary. Instead of 3000%., which he had represented as the utmost amount of reduction, he would find on examination, that there was 53,000l., a considerable mistake in a sum of 1,300,000l. The speech of the honourable member had been so rambling, that he (Mr W.) was obliged to ramble a little along with him. In regard to the conduct of the storekeeper at Sheerness, the honourable member, accusing one individual of peculation, argued with his usual candour, that such was the general practice of the department. As to the fact, he knew nothing. If it were proved, the individual, besides losing his situation, would certainly be punished in a way which would not be agreeable to him. In regard to the doubling of the salary of the majorgeneral, it had arisen from the union of the office for England and Ireland, when the salaries of both were put into one. The salaries of many heads of departments had been lowered. On Mr Hume doubting the fact, Mr Ward gave the following instances:-" My own emoluments have been decreased from 1700l. per year, to 1100%. An honourable friend who sits near me is in the same situation; his salary is reduced 200l. a-year. The secretary of the board, who had 17. a-day war allowance, lost that allowance at the com mencement of the peace." The Duke of Wellington, since he had been at the head of its affairs, had abolished sixty-eight offices, the salaries attached to which amounted to no less than 14,000l. a-year. The honourable gentleman, if he had wished to look fairly at the question, would have told the House that the union between England and Ireland had taken place since 1793, a circumstance which had added an addition of about 130,000%; he would have mentioned the increase of