7

REPORT

From the Committee appointed to consider of the practicability and expediency of supplying our West India Colonies with free LABOURERS from The Eaft; and to report their Opinion thereupon, to the House.

Ordered, by The Houfe of Commons, to be printed, 12 June 1811.

225.

APPENDIX.

-No. 1.

MINUTES taken before The Committee, appointed to consider of supplying the WEST-INDIA COLONIES with LABOURERS.

Lunce, 29 die Aprilis, 1811.

The Hon. FREDERICK ROBINSON, in the Chair.

Captain William Layman, Examined.

CAPTAIN Layman, what is your situation? A Captain in the Navy.

As

What opportunities have you had of knowing the Chinese, their disposition to
cmigrate, their conduct as einigrators, and their fitness as cultivators in our Weft-India
Colonies?I have been in China and various parts of the Eaft, in places where the
Chinese are settled, at different periods, for about ten years. Having also been in
the Weft Indies, I was forcibly ftruck with the disadvantages and unprofitableness
which arose from purchased labourers, and the great benefits that would result from
fablishments in the Weft Indies similar to those which I had seen under our own
Government in the Eaft. I would more particularly mention Penang, as an English:
Settlement, which I recollect a wilderness, but which in a few years was, from the in-
toduction of Chinese, in a considerable ftate of cultivation. This led me particularly.
ti observe the great advantage of hired labour; and from the observations that I made
other parts of the Eaft, the ftill greater advantage obtained by paying the labourers
either in kind, or an adequate sum proportionate to the produce of their labour.
to the facility of emigration, the thing is notoriously known in China; and I have seen,
and been present, when Chinese have come off to thips, and when it has been with
difficulty that they could be sent on there again. It is well known that Lord Anson.
peblicly fhipped Chinese for His Majefty's thip the Centurion, when he was at Macao;
ad it is notorious at the present day, that the Indiamen have no difficulty whatever
in procuring any number they choose. Indeed, the fact is so public, that the Com-
mander of a fhip, wanting Chinese, sends for the Compradore, as he may be called,
the Purveyor, and desires him to procure the number of men he wants; he pro-
cares them, and they come off in junks when the fhip is below the Bocca Tigris; and
wis is well known to the Chinese Government. Further, from the province of Canton,
and Fokin, there are annually thousands that emigrate in the junks trading to the
Eastern Islands. These people go out under a disadvantage to which those who
unbark on board English and other fhips are not subject, a disadvantage
similar to that of the Europeans who went to America as indentured servants, for
they bind themselves to pay a certain sum to the owner or mafter of the junk upon
beng landed, which sum is advanced by their employers. In moft places, more par-
ticularly Batavia, those employers are Chinese who have emigrated in a similar manner,
and acquired wealth by their induftry. Regarding the execution of such a plan as
eftablishing a Colony of these induftrious settlers in the Weft Indies, there is one thing
which requires to be mentioned, and that respects the women. Although there is a
Chinese woman now in England, as I understand, no extensive emigration of females
(a)
has,

Captain

W. Layman.

Captain

W. Layman.

has, to my knowledge, ever taken place from China. This in particular arises from the Chinese who have emigrated being unable to procure and pay for the passage of females; and, further, from there being do deficiency of females, either for labour or for keeping up the population, in the different Settlements to which the Chinese emigrate; and in proof that it arises from these causes, it is notorious that there are no laws, no provision, to prevent females from accompanying the men in the junks from one port to another, or from one province to another; at the same time, it is as well known to the Chinese Government that emigrations take place to the different Settlements, as that their people go from Canton to Hai-nan.

Is this fact of their emigration known to the Chinese Government?—I beg leave to ftate, that the Compradore, the person who is employed to procure these Chinese, has security given for the satisfaction of the Chinese Government, before he is allowed to be employed for the ship: that security is given by the Hong merchant.

Security, for what purpose?-The employing of any person on account of a ship, is a transaction which the Government takes cognizance of; and it cannot be done without receiving its sanction.

Is this person, the Compradore, employed for the purpose of procuring Chinese?
-He is employed generally for the supply of the fhip.

In the case of the Compradore furnithing provisions only to the fhip, would he not give the same security?Certainly; he is only required to procure Chinese when the fhip is in want of people.

Do you know whether the Government is aware that this man is also employed in procuring people; or what reason have you for supposing that the Government is aware that he supplies men, Chinese natives, for the Indiamen?He gives security for his general conduct, and if the Government were dissatisfied with his conduct, they would remove him, or claim the security.

What reason have you for supposing that this transaction is not concealed from the Government?--It is publicly done, Sir; it is not a transaction done in the night; the men come off in junks, below the Bocca Tigris, in open day; they come off be low the Fort, they are not allowed to embark above.

The Chinese not having usually emigrated to such a distance as the Weft Indie, have you any reason to imagine that that distance will be to them a material obje tion?-Certainly not; the diftance is greater from China to England, than fro China to the Weft Indies; but if there is a doubt still remaining on that subject, t importation of Chinese into Trinidad muft completely remove it. I beg leave to o serve also, that a Chinaman, when he is is embarking on board a fhip, rarely, I may say never, enquires particularly to what port fhe is bound.

The experiment at Trinidad having completely failed, do you attribute its failure in any degree to the greater diftance at which those emigrants were placed from their own country, than the Chinese have usually been placed, when they have succeeded better?The failure of the attempt at Trinidad could not have proceeded from the diftance; the emigrants in that case were of a description of people totally unft for the purpose intended, and being all males, rendered it quite impossible to eftablish a Colony. They were the refuse of the Portuguese Settlement of Macao, not people selected for their agricultural habits, or for their being accustomed to the growth and manufacture of sugar, the purpose for which they were intended. Further, on landing at Trinidad, instead of being settled on one spot, they were diftributed among different Planters, to whom they were engaged at monthly pay, inftead of receiving produce, or a sum proportioned to their labour.

Was this experiment, Sir, at Trinidad, made upon your suggestion?——In answer to that question, I beg leave to present to the Committee the Copy of a Letter from Sir Samuel Hood.

"Sir,

[The Letter is as follows:]

Centaur, 3 Sept 1806.

"I have to acknowledge the receipt of your letter on the subject of a plan you submitted to Government in 1802, for the cultivation of Trinidad by Chinese, and which was referred by the Secretary of State to the then Commissioners in England for that Island; in consequence of which you met us, by appointment, at the Trea sury; and that you were informed by the Under Secretary of State, that the execution of the measure only waited an official report of the Commissioners. The termina tion of the Commission certainly prevented the Report, and, as you state, it is unknown to His Majefty's present Minifters in whom the idea firft originated. I have great pleasure in telling you, I always understood the plan of introducing Chinese

*

into

into the West Indies was firft suggefted by you, and your plan was referred to the Commissioners at Trinidad whilft I was one of them; and I muft, Sir, do you the juftice to say, I never heard of any other

persons.

(Signed)

SAMUEL HOOD."

Captain

W. Layman.

I must beg leave to observe, that on the arrival of the Fortitude, the ship which carried the Chinese, at Trinidad, with a cargo of piece-goods from Bengal, I mentioned it as an illegal transaction, to Mr. Windham and the Lords Committee of the Council, which I begged to be understood made no part of my plan of the original communication to Government. The consequence of that importation of piecegoods into Trinidad was, that the ship and cargo were seized and condemned.

Are you aware of any case, except Trinidad, in which the Chinese, as emigrants, have failed to contribute to the improved cultivation of the places to which they have gone?—Of the various places to which they have gone, I do not know of any other inftance, except that of the emigration with Captain Mears, to Nootka Sound; but that Settlement was deftroyed by the Spaniards; and had not the Settlement been deftroyed by the Spaniards, the number of Chinese were too small to be considered a fair trial.

Have they every where diftinguished themselves for their industry, ingenuity, and orderly conduct?- Unprecedentedly so.

Do you apprehend that they would contribute to the security of the Weft-India Colonies? Judging from the improved cultivation, the wealth and resources, and the orderly conduct of these people in every place where they are already settled, I have no hesitation in saying they would be the greatest of all acquisitions to the Weft Indies.

I am speaking as to the security.Yes, they would contribute to their security.

If there fhould be any difficulty in procuring them from China or Cochin-China direct, can they be procured at Penang, or at Batavia, in case it fhould fall into our hands?When Batavia falls into the hands of the English, it cannot be considered as the policy of this country to continue that Settlement as a sugar Colony; consequently, numbers of the Chinese who are now settled at Batavia, must be thrown out of employ: hence a very good opportunity would offer, if measures are immediately taken, and before they are dispersed, to engage any number, with their wives and families, for the establishment of a Colony of them in the Weft Indies.

Have you made any calculation of the expence at which they might be brought to the Weft Indies; I do not mean in detail, but generally?The expence at the firft importation would be more considerable than at any other period, as the charge would afterwards be confined to the expence of collecting them, and to the advance which must be made to equip them for the voyage; but that would be repaid.

Repaid, howIn a way which they have been accuftomed to; by agreement. It may often happen, that a man is very willing to embark; but he says, I have not clothes and necessaries for the voyage; then if you advance a him a sum of money, suppose twenty dollars, to supply himself with necessaries, you are to be repaid those twenty dollars; and if the man cannot get money to repay you, he must work it out by inftalments.

Would the amount of the expence be such as to defeat the object of such a plan? -Certainly not; but it would make a great difference, whether the people were obtained from China or from Batavia: Chinamen would expect higher terms from Patavia, having worked out their term of servitude.

Have you made any calculation of the expence ?- -Certainly.

In your opinion, will that expence be so considerable as to prevent the plan from being extended?—I am not aware of any expences after the firft importation, except the procuring of the people through Chinese agency, the sailing expences of the hip, and the provisions for the Chinese until they arrive in the Weft Indies. The allowance of provisions may be taken at two pounds of rice, and half a pound of meat or fifh per day; and the expence of that at the rate of 10s. or 12s. a hundred weight for the rice; but this muft depend upon the season. If, however, it were judged necessary to procure settlers for the Weft Indies in great numbers, there muft necessarily in that case be a depôt, to receive them in their own junks. Will it not be necessary, for the satisfaction of these people, to provide for their return to their own country at the expiration of the ftipulated term of their service? I cannot answer for its being necessary, but it is extremely desirable.