disbursements of the assistant to the counsel of the navy in law suits, &c. was 11,000l. this year; last year they had only been 8000l. There was also an increase in the contingencies relative to the service wherein the hydrographer was employed; but this would not be surprising to any member who recollected that the maritime surveys were more conveniently taken in a time of peace than in a time of war. He should have to ask for a grant of 32,000l. to Greenwich hospital, as also 8000l. to the naval asylum. Last year he had asked 14,000l. for that purpose; but as it was now intended to unite that establishment with the school at Greenwich hospital, several expensive offices would be reduced, and the sum which he had mentioned would be sufficiently large for the present year. He should now move, "That the sum of 2,484,5997. 11s. 5d. be granted for the ordinary expenses of the navy for the year 1821."

Mr Bernal objected to the voting so large an amount in one sum.

Sir George said, that this had been the uniform practice; but feeling a presentiment that the old method might be objected to, and being as desirous as possible to have these estimates thoroughly sifted, he had prepared them so as that they could be brought forward item by item. Withdrawing his general motion, he there fore moved, in the first instance, 70,596l. 5s. 1d. for salaries and contingent expenses of the admiralty of

fice.

Mr Bernal insisted, that the following savings might be effected :-Two lords of the admiralty, 1000l. a-year each; vice-admiral of Scotland, 1000l.; paymaster of royal marines, 500l.; in all, 35001,

Sir George Cockburn insisted, that all these offices were necessary, particularly the two lords of the admiralty.

If the gentlemen opposite could find any individual who could, without injury to his health, attend at his office from nine o'clock in the morning till four in the afternoon, and then be in his place in that House from four in the afternoon until two in the morning, to answer such questions as might be put to him, he, for one, had no objection to let them instal him in the office. He was of opinion, however, that no such individual could be found; and until such an individual could be found, he would maintain that seven lords of the admiralty were not too many for the office.

Sir Joseph Yorke, on the other hand, who had himself sat at the board, declared that he was sure that the efficiency of the admiralty would not be at all diminished, if the number of the lords were five instead of seven. On his faith, his honour, and his conscience, he believed it. Until the year 1806, the salary of the first lord was 3000l., when it was increased to 5000l. at the time when Earl Grey held the office. It did appear to him a little extraordinary, that the gentlemen over the way did not advert to this subject. Not that it was possible that a nobleman or a commoner could maintain the situation of a cabinet minister on 3000l. a-year, without great loss; but if the first lord had any other office, he certainly should not take, in all, more than 5000l. a-year. The Marquis of Camden had the thanks of the House for giving up part of his salary as teller of the exchequer ; but a right honourable relative of his own (MrC. Yorke) had given up the additional 2000l. a-year while he held the place of first lord, and not a word was said about it. He meant no personal offence to any gentleman; but he was of opinion that the business of the admiralty could be as well transacted by five as by seven lords.

Mr Robinson, who had also sat at the navy board, professed a directly opposite opinion.

Mr Creevey observed the dilemma to which he and his friends were reduced by such contrary statements. It seemed they were voting a supply for five members of parliament. He approved of the heads of offices sitting in the House, but did not see why all the minor officers of government should be there to vote upon the extent of their own emoluments.

The same remark was pressed by Mr Hume.

Mr Croker again declared, that, having thirteen years experience of the labours of the board, he must state his deliberately formed conviction, that the constitution of that board was not only highly useful, but almost absolutely indispensable. Even if the alteration were carried into effect, he could not contemplate any saving to the public; for, as it would then become indispensably necessary that the remaining commissioners should devote their whole time to the duties of their office, it would be impossible to appropriate to them smaller salaries than those of the under secretaries of state.

The committee having divided upon this subject, the original resolution was carried only by a majority of 115 to 77. Another proposed reduction of 10001. was negatived by a majority

of 118 to 55.

The next vote was of 38,9247. 2s. 6d. for the navy pay office.

Mr Hume observed, that the charge was only 44,930. in 1813, when the establishment of the navy was 120,000 seamen, and the expenditure 22 milhions. He conceived, that the reduction ought to have been much greater, when there were only 14,000 seamen, and an expenditure of six millions.

Mr Robinson explained at full length

the cause of the expenditure being still so high. It arose chiefly from two new and highly important departments, the inspector's branch and the prize branch.

Mr Hume declared himself so satisfied with the honourable gentleman's statement, that he declined pushing the question to a vote.

On the 7th May, Mr Hume objected to the sum of 955,000l. for completing the dock-yards at Sheerness. He, therefore, moved, "that the amount of the estimates for completing these works was 824,9927. in 1814, and 433,8007. in 1818; and although the large sum of 1,147,000l. has been expended, a further sum of 955,421l. is stated as necessary to complete the improvements in that yard, and which will make the total charge for one dock-yard 2,102,4217. :-That, therefore, under such varying and uncertain estimates, it is expedient that a committee of this House should be appointed to inquire into the expenditure and future estimates of all works in dock-yards."

Sir G. Cockburn, Sir J. Yorke, and Sir J. Coffin bore testimony to the great utility of these works, which would be rendered useless if not speedily completed. Mr Hume's motion was negatived by 82 to 27.

On the same day, 129,395l. was voted for vessels in ordinary; 970,400%. for half-pay to officers; 1,094,5891. for building and repairing ships of war.

Mr Hume moved a reduction of the last sum to 794,580l.; but on understanding that this could not be done without the violation of certain contracts, he agreed to the postponement of the saving till after their fulfilment. Mr Hume objected also to the sum of 424,6481. for improvement in the dockyards, which he understood was only part payment of two millions.

Sir George Warrender explained,

On the 12th of March, Lord Palmerston prepared to lay the army estimates before the House. Before he began, however, Mr Hume rose and urged, that the time was now come for putting the above resolutions, read on the former day. They contained only matters of fact, and pledged the House to no specific

measures.

Lord Castlereagh conceived there could be no objection to their being entered on the journals, if the honourable member would wait till the proper time; but it would be absurd to call on the House to record an opinion against the estimates, before those estimates were taken into consideration.

Lord Palmerston pointed out a number of errors of calculation which he conceived the honourable member to have committed. He had read somewhere, that it was said by a sage of antiquity, there were two things which were beyond the control of men, and even of the immortal Gods, namely, past events and arithmetic ; but the honourable member had a genius which that sage never contemplated, for he exercised a despotic control over both those things (a laugh)-past events he could alter, and the rules of arithmetic he had the talent to subvert. However, he would do the honourable member the justice to believe that he was not accountable for all the inaccuracies of his resolutions in finance. He understood that he was chairman of a self-constituted committee of finance, which sat from time to time upon the army estimates, as well as other subjects of calculation, and drew up those resolutions, for all the mis-statements in which it would not be fair to make the chairman responsible. (A laugh.) There was also, he understood, an establish

VOL. XIV. PART 1.

ment of clerks, who made up the ac counts under the direction of the committee; and if these accounts were not more accurately made up for the future, he would move for returns of the expenses of the said establishment, in order to ascertain whether the salaries of those clerks were greater than their attention and ability merited.

Mr Hume defended his calculations. He would not deny that he submitted those accounts to the inspection of one or two friends, but not of a self-constituted committee. He wished the noble lord would ma nage his establishment as cheaply as he did his. He employed no clerks to assist him. In such matters, where the interest of the public was so much at stake, it was no difficult matter to find volunteers. The House divided upon the resolutions, which were negatived only by a majority of 98 to 24.

The

Lord Palmerston now rose, to lay the estimates before the House. The principle proposed to be acted upon was a reduction of the establishment, and a diminution of expense. House would see from the estimates, that a reduction had taken place in every thing which was under the effectual control of the executive government, and where an increase should appear, that it had arisen in consequence of certain and fixed rules, which placed these departments beyond the control of the executive government. The veteran battalions had been raised at a moment when the tranquillity of the country had been endangered, and the government at that time pledged themselves that a reduction of those battalions should take place as soon as the situation of the country could justify such a reduction. The estimates would shew that government had acted according to the rule laid down,

D